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Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.11 20:33:00 - [1] reserved EVEranking Lottery is back, new prizes available!!
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.11 21:29:00 - [2] Originally by: Depili How are you calculating the stats? Do you simply take all kills/losses from the involved alliances and use that or do you only count kills made by the enemy alliances to the target alliances? only kills are counted where the victim is in one side, and at least one guy of the other side is in the killers list. (podding a corpmate for fast travel wont be counted for example) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.11 22:23:00 - [3] Originally by: Spike Spiegle Just out of curiousity how does this system work if a kill has members of both sides on it (both friendlys and hostiles) does that count or get removed? you know from smart bombs and bombs and stuff? basically as soon as one of the hostile side is on the killmail it will be counted for that hostile side. if a friendly is on the killmail it will not be counted for the friendly side. Example, a pilot, lets call him Peter Powers gets killed by some Pilot, lets call him Spike Spiegle, and some guy named Karbowiak for some reason ends up at the killmail too (he dropped a bomb) Peter Powers belongs to Side1, Spike Spiegle belongs to Side2, Karbowiak belongs to Side1 This will be counted as a kill for Side2, but not as a kill for Side1 (since its a loss) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 09:48:00 - [4] Originally by: TK420 I'm supposing that you would like this to be an objective look at the war rather than another piece of useless propaganda? While I doubt we can ask for unbiased people to do the reports it would be nice to see the list in detail rather than just kills/isk. Why not show what types of ships are being killed each day and in total? A more detailed list is in work, as Karbowiak wrote, more features will be added step by step, the current state is the most basic information available. Originally by: TK420 When did your calculations start, April 1st? Yes, as thats the point of the official campaign start. Originally by: TK420 It's a good tool, but I think you're cutting it short by not including details and proper lists. I am currently reviewing which of the entities mentioned in this thread will be added, and there might actually be a few that qualify - however, we will not add parties that are neutral/hostile to both sides, since those could be counted for both sides. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 10:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Blazde I have no idea what you're getting at Karb. There's all kinds of accidental blue-on-blue kills messing up the stats already with just your selective list. Rebellion are a part of the NC. They're in RAWR's only guest slot. White Noise and Circle-Of-Two are killing our towers which is pretty much the definition of invading in EVE (tower killing was the basis for me listing most of those entities). If this site is just weak propoganda then fair enough, I wasted my time trying to compile an accurate list. If you want it to be some kind of legitimate record of the war (something I for one have wanted to see in EVE for years) then you need to add in the people actually fighting the war. Sev3rance should go on the north too btw. And is it possible to do something about all those duplicated tower mails (in general on the killboards, not just in these stats)? First of all, Karbowiak cant answer atm, he got a forum ban. Second, inter-side-kills as stated before are not counted, meaning if IT by accident shoots at the initiative, those kills will not be counted for IT. Third, entities like white noise, sev3rance etc are actively shooting on both sides, hence by your own argumentation we could also count them towards the defenders, bottom line, they will not be added at all, till they clearly joined one side. Besides that we are currently editing the list of involved entities taking in account alliances that have been mentioned in this thread, and when done a list of changes will be posted here, but all of those qualify for being for either one side. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 11:23:00 - [6] Originally by: thoth rothschild Only kills are counted if a) Ally Killboard contains a killmail and b) Enemy Killboard contains a Lossmail We¦re back to our basic problem why we demanded such a servicem, which was enemy not posting lossmails.... you got this wrong, all mails that are imported by EVSCO are taken in account, when a killmail shows me for example as a victim, and you are one of the killers, then it will be counted, no matter if it was posted as a kill on yours, or a loss on ours - the relevant information is that i am on the loser side of that mail, and you are on the winner side. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 11:56:00 - [7] Changes: Tormentum Insomea Corporation - changed (T O R M E N T U M Alliance) Clockwork Pineapple - removed Legiunea ROmana - added (Crusaders) Sev3rance - added (NC, my apologies here for earlier post, seems i missunderstood some friendly fire) Burning Ambition - added (Crusaders) HUN Reloaded - added (Crusaders) Quarantine Zone - added (Crusaders) Dirt Nap Squad. - added (Crusaders) Ewoks - added (Crusaders) Rebellion Alliance - added (NC) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 13:12:00 - [8] Originally by: wtfgecko Not that I object to the colour scheme, but could you kinda make them a bit less eye-hurtingly blue and red (especially white on red). And I have a funny feeling you've doctored the 'Crusaders' total isk killed. http://imgur.com/Y7jKj.png colors will get some work, as for the total isk, nope no doctoring to get 666 Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 14:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Marc Folk As mentioned on IRC earlier this day, the stats ARE cross checked (correct me Peter if i write ** :D ). If you find missing mails, post them on eve-kill. Or add the feed to eve-kill, so the kills will be fetched. yes, the stats are cross checked - i think i posted an example earlier in this thread. Originally by:** Grigo i am not interested just pointing out a fact as i did the mats for 2010-04-09 and its around 20 bil off so wont even bother whit the rest. i would like to see that math. Originally by: Grigo p.s why is WN and CO2 not on Crusaders team? as stated a few times in this thread, they are shooting on the crusaders side aswell. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:11:00 - [10] o/ folks, i just added a few charts today, for people who like it a bit more visual than numbers (alot of people where asking me in chats and other forums for this) (yes im reading more then this, trying to get more input on how to imrpove) about the "1st of april" discussion: I was thinking about the date and when to start quite a bit before we launched the northern-crusade website, because i knew no matter what date i pick there would be discussion. At first my favorite was to start tracking at launch-day, but then alot of people would have complained about the 10 days before that. Putting the date before a the day that the invasion started might be in favour for the defending forces (not sure i havent run the numbers), but a bit unorthodox too, and i dont see where to draw the line then. The Decision was made, and it will stay as it is. About the color discussion: Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors. About the name: We where discussing a name for the domain on EVSCOs irc channel a few days ago, and pretty much all we could come up with was pretty lame - all circus/clow related stuff would not give credit to all of the attackers, and we did not want to use terms used for previous wars making it more distinctive. I came up with Crusade, did not like it too much myself (because of the religious associations) but everyone else on that channel liked it - they registered the domain, and northern crusade was born. When going for the party names i looked at CAOD if it allready had coined a name for the attackers, but most where using SC - which is not only quite lame, but also not accurate (Ev0ke for example is not a southern entity and not all southern major alliances are involved), so looking at the name of the site i believe crusaders is quite a good fit for the name. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict

Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 09:42:00 - [11] Originally by: arjun one little request: please make it so, that the baseline of the graphs is at zero. looking at it now i get depressed, but maybe thats the purpose . make little arjun happy please. i had that before, and i just enabled it again (since several people have been asking for this. personally i prefered the other variant where the lowest value is the baseline since it leaves a bit more space for the information, but meh.. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 10:45:00 - [12] on request of one of the donators - pie charts for the total values have been added. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Dirala better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy. i dont see why i should spend extra design work just because some guys dont like the color i pick - no matter colors i will pick someone will complain, it stays as it is, and i will ignore any further discussion about the colors. Originally by: Dirala And what about the credit for the defenders? I'm pretty sure nobody ever thought about that. So again, this sounds very much biased. i believe "northern crusade" to be much less biased than "circus up north" or something like that, cause the later one would pretty much say "IT against north", while the first one a new block (which did not exist before btw) marks - and if you havent noticed "northern" allready gives credit for the northeners being in this conflict. Originally by: Dirala Especially because you don't wanne change a little bit of it. (which actually would make your work more accepted) i've spend quite some time reviewing proposed changes in the setup of the two sides, if you read previous posts you will also see that i, after those reviews even did add/remove/change a few. However i dont see why i should: - edit colors to the preference of a hand full of people (quite sure getting others to complain then), i put alot of work in this, and i think as long as i am happy with how it looks, and aslong as the information is transported it is fine - add alliances/corps to one side of the conflict, when they are actively shooting at that side, there is simply no logic in that. - change any names, as for colors there will allways be someone declaring that the name doesnt fit his preferences, but seriously, get over it. This is not meant to win a popularity contest but to provide as accurate statistics as possible - the criteria for those statistics are public, so it shouldnt be to hard to figure whats possible and what not. Originally by: Dirala Anyways, I got a question too. Regarding the ISK kill/loss: You take modules into account? And when you pull kills from other boards, how is the ISK value determined. because on the IT killboard, the Wyvern loss for example is way less ISK as on the eve-kill board. And that is because all the faction modules on the IT Killboard are worth nothing. It uses the value from the evsco database, when evsco imports killmails from other boards the values are generated on the fly (thats data which is not copied from other boards). And yes, module prices should be included. Originally by: foksieloy Suggestion: Add total numbers (character wise) for each alliance on the lists. And a grand total for Crusaders and NC. Just so people would understand what clash this is. :> that has been requested alot, and i am looking into it when i find the time, but thats not the highest place on my priority list Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:42:00 - [14] First of all: a few changes, the home side has been split up to daily and total stats pages (use the links at the top), and the new home just shows basic total stats + the stats of the day before. the daily page is pretty much what was on the home under daily before on special request the total page got extended by graphs displaying the growth of points/isk killed/kills over time. Originally by: senecti So how does this work then ? if you got on most of the crusaders boards their KD ratios are far lower than those on the NC's boards but somewhere along the way the crusaders gained loads. ratios usually look different on single killboards since they are not all added up there - also most of the reports there tend to be mixed with kills from one side showing up as kills of the other - this does not happen in the calculations for northern crusade. Originally by: senecti Also if the mail needs to be posted on both boards how does that work when for example atlas today have had 17 losses according to eve-kill yet only 1 has found its way onto atlas's board. Also if you look at the day before atlas lost 3 and half pages worth but they only posted 7 on their boards. It does not need to be on both boards (where is this rumour comming from?) one killmail has two information, one is one entry - the victim, the other side is a list of attackers. the victim needs to be from side1 and at least one of the attackers from side2 for the kill to be counted for side2. no matter from which board this is comming, one mail is enough to ensure it is a mail from this conflict. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.15 18:45:00 - [15] Edited by: Peter Powers on 15/04/2010 18:53:01 Originally by: Deltaprimus heya mate ur stats for talos are wrong :( http://talos-coalition.co.uk/?a=home thats our killboard its 100% api synced so there's no fake mails and all losses are on there as well (otherwise my guys get ball ache from me for not posting properley). if you wish to point ur killboard at that to bring ur database up to date ur more than welcome. im not exactly sure which stats you mean, northern crusade doesnt exactly do statistics for single alliances? EDIT: actually i think i found what you mean, you mean the alliance stats on eve-kill, not northern crusade? i just made a quick check over the two boards to see the difference, the eve-kill one shows actually more kills than your own one - the point is that your own one is wrong! The API only contains kills where one of you either lost his ship or where the final blow was by one of the corp that the key belongs to - so if one of your allies (another alliance) got the final blow, and your killboard is not synching feeds from there (looks like that is the case) - then those mails will not show up on your own board, but they might, trough eve-kill reading the feed from all sorts of borads, end up on eve-kill. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.16 11:21:00 - [16] Hello dear Capsuleers, In the eye of recent events -A- has been added to the crusaders side. Originally by: Optimism You need to fix the prices for faction missiles and reprice all the kills that have happened up until now... a) you want to take this to the EVSCO guys (check the links to their chats) b) those prices affect both sides equal so its not that much of an issue regards, PP Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 20:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Peter Powers on 19/04/2010 20:04:58 Hello, a few days ago a friend offered to contribute to northern-crusade, today he gave me his code, so here a new feature for all those who want more numbers: There are now daily details available, most prominent: the values are available to read split by system. there will be more/other details available soon aswell. regards PP PS: thanks to all the donators btw! EDIT: PPS, how rude of me, i forgot to mention his name, Femaref Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 12:07:00 - [18] Edited by: Peter Powers on 24/04/2010 12:07:30 what Karb said. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 21:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Caladain Barton It's shoddy programming. It's been brought up how they "calculate" kills (very stupid manner) and it's been shown that false killmails (made up ones worth billions of isk) make it into these "calculations". War Propaganda, nothing more. "it has been brought up" -> actually i have explained a few times in this thread how the kills are counted, and those wo claimed that kills are counted double or kills with friendly fire would count for both sides are simply wrong. There is no better or more exact way to get such numbers than using a fixed standing list to see who a kill needs to be counted for, and thats exactly whats happening. About false killmails, Beansman deleted quite alot of duplicates that came through a bug in the EDK a few days ago, other then that, if you see fakes in the EVSCO database: report them. Besides, just looking at my last 4 losses listed at the northern-coalition board, i can see one mail which is an obvious fake of me dying. Originally by: Caladain Barton Honestly, your biggest clue to it being bunk is that they don't show a list of kills and deaths. Who died, who killed, etc. Without a list to check, it's meaningless. Just very manipulatable "data" with no way to look at what it's "counting". Numbers pulled from thin air. All those kills are in the EVSCO database, which is available through eve-kills. Showing all kills there would mean to implement yet another killboard, which is not the goal of northern-crusade. Northern-Crusade is showing statistics of values aggregated from the most complete killmail database available, and that is the purpose of it. Originally by: Caladain Barton At least the RAWR killboard shows you in battlereport all friendlies on one side, and all reds on the other. It's the only killboard that does this 95% correct that i've found. Again, Northern-Crusade is not a killboard, also it does not do any battle reports, but since it uses a fixed list of entities on both sides, kills cannot land on the wrong side. Originally by: Caladain Barton Still not perfect, but better than magical unicorn numbers pulled from molle's bum. Neither "Magical Unicorns" nor Molle are involved in this project. As stated before, its a cooperation between EVSCO and me. Originally by: Fred0 1. You are cherrypicking the alliances on your side. Your side said it was 5 coordinated fronts including the CR harrassment campaign so that's the entities you should include if this is the Northern Crusade. If not you might aswell just use the IT kb and call it a day at that. :) To my knowledge all entities that are coordinating with us have standings accordingly and are on the list aswell. As long as someone is shooting at me i will not add him on our side. ever. As soon as i have reliable information that someone is joining our side (or yours) that entity will be added to the statistics, until then this discussion is a waste of time. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 09:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Misaki Tanaka Actually I'm going to "go out on a limb" here and say that this is just a moneygrab. As many of the alliances that are listed on northern-crusade do not run their killboards through eve-kill, some of the most prominent are IT, TCF, SOLO, AAA, Wildly, etc. you are wrong, the IT killboard is not hosted by EVSCO, and i believe SOLODRAKBANetc.. and TCF run their own ones aswell. Originally by: Misaki Tanaka So if a huge battle happens between SOLO/TCF and IT/AAA for example and IT/AAA gets stomped, then the only kills that will show up on northern-crusade's website is the ones that are purposely cross posted to an eve-kill killboard. Extra work = nobody posting all kills from battles. you are wrong there, again. EVSCO is crawling the feeds of the killboards of the other alliances, so usually the kills end up in the databse anyways. Originally by: Misaki Tanaka I believe that northern-crusade is not as much war propaganda as it is a money grab and a mindshare grab. It's got that feel of "Well if you aren't paying us to run your killboard then you lose out". The only ISK im making from it are the donations, which can be seen on the northern-crusade donations page. Originally by: Misaki Tanaka Also I'm not sure I'd trust you with an NC director's full API key. I'm not sure why MM does it. :P besides the fact that the full API key only allows you to read more data than the limited one (you cant manipulate anything), there is an audit log, which allows people to see what data was requested when, including the origin IP from the request. Besides that, northern-crusade is not using any API key for anything, im using the data from the EVSCO database, which might be feeded from API, but thats nothing todo with my part in this. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict

Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 14:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Lord TGR Oh. I see. I take it he's running the stats from 00:00 till 23:59 then, I thought the stats ran from DT to DT since they never updated prior to DT. thats correct, its 00:00:00 to 23:59:59, and updated in the downtime the next day. Originally by: Lord TGR Would still be nice if the numbers were explained a bit further. 3 SBUs/TCUs/IHUBs, 100 caps etc would be more interesting to know about than f.ex 100 frigates killed. That is, if this is going to be a conflict tracker that'll be used for more than just NC vs SC. I am working on adding those information, so as soon as ill find the time to implement that stuff it will go live. The software itself (ECOTRA) is designed to handle more than one conflict, and in future other conflicts might be tracked by it aswell, but again, thats future stuff, lets stay at today for now =) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 15:56:00 - [22] maybe at a later time, for now it will stay on a daily basis Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.01 03:37:00 - [23] to answer to a few of the posts: ok, killpoint question has been answered by karb and others in the thread (seriously guys, its nothing new how edk based killboards give points) double mails -> report 'em, you've been told more than once its 00:00:00 to 23:59:59, not downtime to downtime. the PL question: they are not fighting up north, from what i know they dont have standings with the northeners (correct me if wrong) Also, Panda guys have been fighting in fountain for a while, and from what i know are not affiliated with the NC either (here, too correct me if wrong). i think the subject of when someone will get added has been discussed enough. @Kilostream: Karbowiak creating it? he is hosting it!!! i feel not appreciated here. but thanks for such a post from your direction :) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.02 22:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Meno Theaetetus it makes mistakes Since "deciding" to which side a kill belongs in this case is handled by northern crusade, not by the EDK, there are no side-mistakes Originally by: Meno Theaetetus kills get faked, losses get ommited. there is nothing i can do to prevent that. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.03 22:52:00 - [25] two quick updates: since the guy who owns the domain hasnt been available yet, the northern-crusade domain is not working atm (pointing to the old evsco server, if you havent heard yet, evsco moved servers) however, it is temporary (till northern-crusade.com works again) available at http://crusade.devedge.eu/ The second update: on the daily details page it will now show what shiptypes have been killed by who on a daily basis Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.07 10:32:00 - [26] forgot to mention: the original address http://northern-crusade.com is working again. also participants lists have been updated to reflect late events. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.07 22:57:00 - [27] for the same reasons why they wherent added before, their mails wont be added historicaly. and who are the guys you are talking about? Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.08 17:55:00 - [28] a) WN. and CO2 are blue now b) Burn Eden is not blue c) RA is not blue Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.11 12:15:00 - [29] since i got a few (some of 'em very angry) evemails about why the titan killed last night is not on yesterdays stats: the titan was killed at 02:29 EVE Time, so it is from TODAY and therefor will be in TODAYS stats, which are generated TOMORROW. Thanks for your attention. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.11 22:59:00 - [30] the kills by shiptype and kills by system tables can now be sorted by clicking on the header of the column you want to sort 'em by. regards PP Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict

Peter Powers Gallente FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 16:25:00 - [31] Originally by: arjun [ can we have a general system and ship breakdown please? would be interesting i think. for instance sc uses more interdictors than nc and nc uses more battlecruisers than sc. additional would be interesting if there are more hotspots than h-w and x-70. Hello, there allready is a ship breakdown, by day and a total breakdown aswell. system totals could be added, but im moving atm in RL, so i dont have the time todo so (read: wait a few weeks) Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict

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